Where do the divisions stand now? (5/27)
The last two times I blogged on this subject we got a decent amount of debate and comments so let's try again. It was a very exciting PPV filled with a lot of great performances. We had a sample from every weight class at UFC 84, but the night belonged to he lightweight champion followed by a larger group of light heavyweights. Let's break down each division and what the fights at "Ill Will" meant.
- Lightweight:Obviously this night belonged to BJ Penn and his dominating win over Sean Sherk. I was extremely disappointed in Sherk's strategy, looking forward to seeing an explosive Sherk attempt to take Penn down repeatedly and tire him out. Instead we got a standup was where BJ simlpy used his superior statnd up and peppered his face all night. After the fight Sherk mentioned he was great at takedown defense, but I don't rememebr seeing a single strong shot attempt on Sherk's end. Anyways, to me this puts Penn in line to take on the winner of Huerta and Florian and that fight will probably go on at some point before 2009. There is a lot of discussion about a Penn vs. St. Pierre match which would be awesome but I think Penn has that one more match to get through first. Than he would have beaten Sherk, Stevenson and Huerta/Florian. Who would be left for him at that point? Right now LW is mostly a large group of younger fighters who are still working there was up so we could potentially see GSP vs. Penn in Spring 2009 and with a win or loss there maybe there would be more people in LW ready to challenge for the belt. As for Sherk, it's always tough where you send the loser of the championship matches. Looking at the rumors page at MMAWeekly.com, a few notable LW names that do not have fights coming up include Nate Diaz, Grey Maynard, and Tyson Griffin. The other option as well is Rich Clementi, who beat Terry Etim at UFC 84. I would lean toward Maynard because he beat Griffin and in my mind cracked the top ten in the UFC LW division. That would be a nice wrestling bout between the young up and comer and the expereience veteran. I would like to see Clementi make the step up, I think a match with him and Diaz could be a good one to catapult one of them to cement them into the top 10 of the UFC LW division.
- Welterweight:Fairly uneventful night in the UFC Welterweight division with a pair of undercard matches. We got to see a peak at Yoshiyuki Yoshida with his nice choke out of Jon Koppenhaver in his UFC debut and Dong Hyun Kim won his debut over Jason Tan with strikes in the third round. I'm not certain of much of theses guys futures but both have decent records and now have UFC stoppages in a very tough division so maybe in their next fight we can see a step up for each.
- Middleweight:Only one fight for the 185ers and it was another UFC debut victory as Rousimar Palhares had a beautiful submission of the night arm bar on veteran Ivan Salaverry. Palhares with a 16-1 record might be able to make his name known fairly quickly in a division looking for new competition for champion Anderson Silva. Maybe more of a name step up in his next fight versus someone like Ed Herman or Alan Belcher. A victory there could prepare him to enter the top 10 of the UFC MW division really prove where he should be ranked.
- Light Heavyweight:Well here is where most of the action happened. We have victories for a pair of Silva's, Machida, Reljic, and Sokoudjou. Wanderlei Silva looked great in a desperately needed victory knocking Keith Jardine out of his potential title shot, so who gets it next? I suppose I would have to lean towards Machida but I'd rather see him get one more quality victory before that. Goran Reljic reminded us of another Croation with fast and strong kicks on his way to a nice UFC debut victory. Sokoudjou bonced back nicely after getting smacked down by Machida than calls out Shogun. Lastly Thiago Silva ruins Antonio Mendes debut and gets another dominating UFC win. So where does all this mess go from here? The big question is who gets the winner of Griffin and Ramapage. The tough part is Liddell beat Silva but lost to Jardine. Jardine beat Liddell but lost to Silva. Silva beat Jardine but lost to Liddell, you get the point... Due to Liddell's injury I would put Wanerlei Silva vs. Machida and the winner gets the fight for the belt. I would have Liddell still fight Rua once both of them get healthy and maybe the winner there could get a title shot in 2009. Sokodjou wants Shogun, which to me he needs one more UFC win vs. a top ten opponent to get to make that request. Let's put him with Thiago Silva in a few monthes to give both of them a step up and see who belongs in the top 10. All you'd have left than is Reljic who could probably use one more match vs. the LHW 11-20 ranked to prove himself and make his way into the top ten. As for the losers, the only ones worth discussing are Jardine and Ortiz. Pendings Rua's time of recovery, maybe they'll give Liddell a rematch against Jardine or they'll start to us Jardine as more of a gate keeper, where I think is ultimately his role. As for Tito, I don't know how many more wins he has in his pocket agains the cream of the crop of the UFC. It sounds like he could potentially renegoiate with the UFC based upon his post fight interview but to me that was just to open up the talks and drive his price up on the open market. Either way he was great for the sport in his prime and still has a large fan base. A lot to digest in the LHW world.
- Heavyweight:Last and normally least in the UFC are the heavyweights but they did get a shot of adrenaline by one of there young up and comers. Shane Carwin came out and sent Christian Wellisch's mouthpiece flying. He looks very promising and bringing him up nice and easy would be good along with Cain Velasquez. If Brock Lesnar can turn out to be anything the division has potential on the horizon it just could take a few years, so stay tuned.
These are my thoughts, let me know what everyone thinks. Thanks.
-The Captain
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Comments
at the moment, most of the
at the moment, most of the divisions are in a bit of a holding pattern
155:
penn - florian/huerta
any matches that occur up to that fight are to set up a progression for the next in line
if penn wins, i think he either vacates or just has a big time fight with gsp because the interest is there... there are enough bodies at 155 for us to see like an 8 or 4 man tournament (4 would probably be the most logistically feasible), winner gets to fight for the belt in some capacity, either against penn after a gsp fight or for a vacated strap. if penn vacates and serra wants to keep fighting after hughes, i think he should move down to 155
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170
gsp - fitch
hughes - alves (alves wins, he puts himself at likely the top of the pecking order otherwise its pretty wide open)
hughes likely won't persue a title and the only unsettled business for him is serra ... there could be interest in him moving up
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185
who the hell can they throw to silva? he whooped everyone he has faced pretty convincingly, so wandy might be the most intriguing matchup but he has a lot more interesting fights at 205 than 185, and i think dana may have said as much. unless you can talk a 205er to move down, i think your next big fight for silva will be bisping if he gets by day. only other viable bodies i can think of are thales leites or palhares but those guys need more exposure to create a marketable fight for silva. winner of leites - marquardt would probably get consideration after bisping if he wins.
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205
talent rich, take your pick
forrest - rampage
chuck - shogun
sokoudjou - shogun
wandy - machida
wandy - chuck
wandy - rampage
machida - champion
jardine - forrest
jardine - t.silva
machida - t.silva
evans - t.silva
evans - jardine
evans, t.silva, and machida are all sitting on double digit wins with no losses with machida having the most notable opponents
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205+
mir - nog
herring - lesnar (if herring wins, i think he gets #1 contender, if its lesnar, they go lesnar - kongo to give him another legitimizing fight before we hear any title talk)
otherwise i think they push the winner of vera-wedun
kongo - some dude i never heard of (i thought this was an announced fight)
gonzaga - arlovski (if they retain him)
feed velasquez and carwin to some 66% win or worse fighters
LWs - Maynard beat Edgar not
LWs - Maynard beat Edgar not Griffen (who was beat by Edgar). Maynard v. Griffen would be a great fight and worth seeing.
And HWs... assuming Herring wins as he should, I dont think a Nog/Herring (IV) Title fight would be interesting at all. I hate the HWs right now. Re-sign AA dammit! AA v. Nog would be great!
Good points Bosco, I like
Good points Bosco, I like your Serra point about moving down. I know he used to fight LW and think that could be very good for him and the division to get a quality veteran in the division. I like the tournament idea and thought of it but I don't want to get my hopes up because I know Dana doesn't like the idea.
Agreed about WW as well, the intersting thing is if Hughes beats Alves and GSP beats Fitch than what? Assuming that GSP stays within the division hopefully by that time some of the WEC guys have merged and we can have the Condit vs GSP match. I think GSP would have the advantage but Condit is tricky.
Middleweight we just need to hope that the future is bright between Bisbing (or even potentially Day), Leites and Palhares as you mentioned, and don't forget about Maia down the line.
Light heavyweight is obviously pretty wide open. I still think like an 8 man tournament would be the best for the division, but again this isn't what Dana wants.
Heavyweight I agree with you as well but I think we just need to forgot about Arlovski at this point because it isn't looking good. Just have to hope the Nog-Mir match is a quality bout and in the meantime while they film TUF that some of these young guys can pile up more wins and slowly get into position for a title fight. If two of these young guys are legit and the Mir-Nog match is solid you have at least 5 qualitiy fights on top of the division (throw in the winner of Werdum and Vera and that isn't horrible. I think they just have to do there best to continue to try to bring in young talent.
Sixtus - sorry about the error. You are totally right and I did know that just mixed them up. I agree Griffin and Maynard could be solid. Maynard might be ready for another step higher though because he beat Edgar who already beat Griffin.
-The Captain
am i the only one who thinks
am i the only one who thinks that herring shouldn't get a title shot? people put way too much emphasis on that one headkick he landed on noguiera. people tend to forget that herring got absolutely dominated every single round and almost every single minute of that fight except the end of the first round.
herring needs to beat 2-3 more guys i think.
I agree with you Papa, just
I agree with you Papa, just think unforunately the division is so weak right now that Herring beating Kongo who is only a decent fighter comes off as a huge win.
-The Captain
Still waiting to hear what
Still waiting to hear what Arlovski has decided but regardless the heavyweight div. is very weak in the UFC and not really that strong outside the UFC either. A lot of rising talent but not a lot of star power.
Outside of Nogueira, is there really anyone else who is for sure in the UFC who could be considered a top 10 heavyweight?
Who SHOULD get a title shot?
Who SHOULD get a title shot? Send Chuck up a weight class... I would rather see Chuck as a HW than see Chuck-Rampage III. And why not... they handed Randy a HW title shot after going 1-2 in his previous 3 LHW fights (same as Chuck) and 2-3 in the previous 5 fights (Chuck is 3-2 in his previous 5) before getting an immediate title shot.
So why not send Chuck up to fight Nog?
At this point it is tough to
At this point it is tough to simply name 10 heavyweights... According to MMA Weekly there top 10 has 3 current UFC guys, Nogueira, Werdum and Gonzaga... I would take Gonzaga out but I'd probably put Mir or Herring in his place.
As for LHW, who are the bigger LHW's that would seem to have an easy time making the move?
-The Captain
maybe i'm mistaken here, but
maybe i'm mistaken here, but i consider WEC as the only game in town when it comes to 145 ... i think the same thing should happen to HW. get more bodies in the division.
i cant think of LHW guys i would like to see move up. jardine? his 2 KTFOs make me think HW isnt a good place for him. rampage? sokoudjou? chuck? i'm just trying to think of guys that look like they carry mass ... but if you take a LHW and ask him to go against someone that cuts down to make the 265 limit, i think we have a pretty substantial weight difference
You know what I find a bit
You know what I find a bit ironic about Randy Couture and all his posturing about Fedor being the only fight that makes sense for him left in his career is that Couture got rocked by Liddell twice in a row before retiring. Couture's walking around like he's dominated MMA for 10 years and he's got one fight left. I'd like to see Couture against Nogueira and against Liddell whether at HW or LHW. Sure, Fedor too. But, there are actually plenty of other fights that make sense for Couture...
Chuck is a bigger LHW than
Chuck is a bigger LHW than most and he has fought guys who competed well at HW (wins over Couture, Randleman, Belfort - all former UFC HW Champs and a win over Jeff Monson who fought for the HW title as well as a win over Overeem who is the current HW champ for Strikeforce and a former contender in the Pride). I'd say he has the best chance of moving up to HW and taking the title.
when i started watching the
when i started watching the UFC all i saw from couture were his 2 losses to chuck and he retired....so i was happy to see him comeback but then he retires/resigns again!
thats interesting sixtus, maybe chuck should move up if he can't beat rampage!
imagine UFC 100: Chuck Vs. Nog....
or chuck vs fedor...
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ULTIMATE CHALLENGE CHAMPION UFC 83
I'm pretty down on Couture
I'm pretty down on Couture right now. I get that he wants more money but he just signed the contract last year and the UFC gave him a title fight on his return after being retired for a year and after losing his last fight at a lower weight class! He's deprived fans of some good fights in the heavyweight division for the last 6 months and the division has slowly crumbled and lost all its steam under the weight of an interim title tag...Just lame...
Combine that with the TUF BS
Combine that with the TUF BS of no title defense for a year. DW + Randy = temp death of HW division.
Chuck does great against wresters/BJJ guys who usually dominate on the ground - think Babalu, Tito, and Randy. I would say that he stands a great shot at beating Nog... much better than Mir stands. Unless he had to fight someone like Cro Cop, AA or Sylvia, I think Chuck could actually hold the HW title for a while too.
I think Chuck is getting to
I think Chuck is getting to the point where he probably only has a few fights a LHW to redeem but I'm unsure if I see him fighting for that much longer to make a move to heavyweight practical. I think unfortunately the best path is going to just be try to find as many blue chippers you can find and spend a little extra cash to bring back Arlovski or other FA's when available.
-The Captain
The problem for the UFC
The problem for the UFC heavyweight division is that this is the worst-case scenario. The division has reached a tipping point whereby most of the top fighters are no longer with the UFC. Every other league out there is non-exclusive which means that if these fighters can get paid what they want outside the UFC, then the matchups are there for them and there's really no need to return to the UFC to fight the best.
The middleweight division is close to the same situation but the UFC is fortunate to have both of its last two champs still under contract and fighting, including the #1 fighter in the division. If the Spider were to bolt then you'd see a similar situation with the middleweight division.
yea pramit...i've been
yea pramit...i've been pretty PO'ed against couture as well. not to diminish what he's done, but he really does walk around as the greatest UFC champ ever and really, I think both Chuck and Hughes have accomplished more.
i'm still a fan but maybe randy should fight nog. it's not like people think nog is a terrible champion or anything. he's got more credentials than gonzaga did and randy was more than happy to take that fight.
I don't really know that HW
I don't really know that HW is dead for the UFC right now--not if Carwin, Lesnar, Kongo, Big Nog, etc. have anything to say about it. They may not all be the best fighters in the world but they definitely make their fights interesting nonetheless. It sure would be nice to see AA back in the UFC though...
i think that the UFC will
i think that the UFC will start recognizing that some fighters need to be built up slowly. All their biggest stars were built slowly from the ground up (couture, chuck, hughes, tito). I'm not saying that they need to feed their up and comers easy fights, but guys like Fitch and Marcus Davis gain some hardcore fans when they win, win, and win and don't get the recognition they deserve.
Interesting Papa - I like
Interesting Papa - I like the build up to give guys a little ring experience... I think what XC is doing with Kimbo in that respect is great and appropriate (but not the hype) - in my opinion it's what the UFC should do with Lesnar. But I hate in boxing how there are proffessional 'cans' who simply fight to help 'up and comers' build up records to get to that impressive 22-0, etc. I also hate in boxing how 1-2 losses early in your career basically ends it. But I do like how they make them get a little accomplished at smaller shows and refine thier fight game in the ring - not taking a guy from the WWE and making him the main event in his second fight.
The only defense to Lesner
The only defense to Lesner over Kimbo is when he was in his co main event he wasn't facing a can.
-The Captain
yeah i'm not saying let
yeah i'm not saying let these guys get like 8 wins in a row in the UFC. but i like what they're doing with diego sanchez, marcus davis, and fitch right now. after diego lost twice, they started giving him tough but winnable fights. marcus davis got some decent, tough competition and now is moving up to fight swick and will probably fight swick level fighters for one or two more fights if he wins. fitch, obviously took the slow route and is slowly gaining some hardcore fans.
the difference with kimbo is that he's the main event (or usually the main event). i would never want a main eventer to be fighting a dud.
Good point Cap. - XC is
Good point Cap. - XC is garbage for featuring him as the main event against a fighter who is has slid so much from what he once was.
At LW... do Florian/Huerta REALLY have a good shot at beating Penn? I read Pat Militich said once that he feels like a shark among seals when walking through the mall... that's the way I see Penn in the LW division.
florian is too easy to take
florian is too easy to take down as shown by lauzon and sherk. florian's best shot is if he manages to cut penn...but when's the last time you saw penn bleed from anywhere other than his mouth or nose.
i don't think huerta has a shot against penn. he was getting smoked by guida who is good but not THAT good before managed that submission.
i don't think eers man love
i don't think eers man love florian will beat penn.
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